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Alexander Kerr - what happened to him?
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Alexander Kerr - what happened to him? Reply with quote

Alexander Kerr, born Wilton, Hawick, 26th August, 1887.
A son of James Kerr and Isabella (nee Murray).
Alexander married Jane Elliot in St.Mary’s Church Hawick on 13th September 1913.

A small biography in the book “Hawick & The Great War” states:

Private Alex.Kerr, Notts and Derby Regt.(Sherwood Foresters), reported wounded on the right leg and left arm through the bursting of a shell, on 15th Feb.1916.
Private Kerr served an apprenticeship to the printing trade in “The Hawick News” office, and prior to enlisting was employed as a compositor in a large publishing office in Glasgow. His wife and child reside there.
He joined the Glasgow Territorial Division of the Royal Engineers in 1915, and was transferred into the Notts regiment.
Private Kerr is a son of Mr James Kerr, retired postman, 2 Earl Street, Hawick.


Alexander Kerr is listed on the Hawick Roll of Honour and is on the memorial within St.Mary’s church in Hawick as having died in the Great War. Both list him as having served with the Notts&Derby (Sherwood Foresters).

However:
There is no match on the Commonwealth War Graves website:
There are 51 A.Kerrs listed from 1916-1919 but only 3 are listed in the R.E and only 1 in the Notts & Derby Regt. This soldier was born in Chelsea, enlisted in Houndslow and lived in India so is no match for Alexander.

There are no matches on the “Soldiers Died” database:
There are 13 Alexander Kerrs listed but none are Notts & Derby or Royal Engineers.
There is only one Kerr listed as having died with the Notts & Derby but this was Albert George Kerr, the same as was born in Chelsea so again is not a match.

Searching through Medal Index Cards gives no Kerr having service in both the Royal Engineers and Notts & Derby.
There is one match for an Alexander Kerr seeing service in the Notts & Derby. Pte. Alexander Kerr, no.76201.
This lists that he earned a pair and was entitled to a Silver War Badge.

Fortunately the Pension Record for this Pte. Alexander Kerr, no.76201. still partially exists.
This states that Alexander attested in Glasgow on the 15th August 1915 into the Highland Field Coy. Royal Engineers.
Thereafter he was transferred to 15th Training Reserve Battalion 3rd Reserve Brigade.
On the 11th January 1917 he was transferred to the Notts & Derby (Sherwood Foresters) and was sent to France.
Less than a week after being in France he is listed as being wounded and on his surviving Casualty Form it states: “GSW leg & arm” and the line below states “R leg & L arm).

These details are strikingly similar to the information listed in the book “Hawick & The War” listed earlier, even down to where he was wounded on the body. The only niggle I have is that the “Hawick” book states 1916 but the high balance of probability is that they should have written 1917.

It is my belief that the Alexander Kerr listed as having died on 2 War Memorials in Hawick and the above soldier, Pte. Alexander Kerr, no.76201, Notts & Derby (Sherwood Foresters) are the same man.
There is just too much coincidence.

However, after receiving an army pension and entitlement to a SWB, what fate befell Alexander to be listed as having died?
There are only 3 Alexander Kerrs’ listed in the Scottish Office records who died in the immediate aftermath of the Great War and whose age matches Alexander’s. But none of the family details provided on their death extracts remotely fit Alexander’s details.
So if he didn’t die in army service allowing him CWGC status and he doesn’t appear to have died in Scotland towards the immediate war end, how is his name on 2 separate war memorials which were unveiled 1921-22?
Just to add further interest, there are no Alexander Kerrs’ with his family details listed as having died in Scotland to this present day.

Can anyone shed any light on this man?
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek

Have you only checked Scotland for his death.He may have died in England or he may have gone overseas for work?

Cheers

Adam
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked the English records up until 1922 with no trace. I'm assuming that he must have died before the Hawic memorials were raised.
I have found his wife's death certificate and she is listed as a widow by 1949 so that narrows down his death as between 1917 and 1949 !

Either he died in service and is a CWGC non-com, that there is a transcription error with the Scottish death certificates for his death or he moved out of Scotland.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: 76201 Pte A M Kerr Reply with quote

Derek

76201 A.M. Kerr (Glasgow ) Sherwood Forresters is listed wounded on a Casualty List published 21st March 1917
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,
Thank you.
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy of Sandra at the Burials Office in Hawick, she has identified the grave of Alexander's parents and his widow - but no mention of him so he is not buried in Hawick.
My fingers are crossed that I can get a clue by visiting the graves in the next few day.


1878 - ISABELLA MURRAY or KERR - 74 yrs - buried 6th March 1930

JAMES KERR - 89 yrs - buried 20th July 1940


WILTON - BURGHAL SECTION "M" - LAIR NO. 2681

Lairholder was representatives of Jane Kerr

2681 - JANE KERR - died age 66 yrs - buried 15th Sept 1949

Widow of Alexander Kerr - 25 Dickson Street, Hawick
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandra is a gem for I found the following inscribed on his parent's headstone:



Now to buy his death certificate and try to establish why he was on the Isle of Man.
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just so happen to have a copy of "Isle of Man 20th Century Military Archaeology Part 1: Island Defence" in my collection. The title is misleading, it's more a book detailing the military history of the island, so it covers events of a military nature.

There were some military camps on the island, running from 1923 onwards. There was a camp at Mooragh between 7 July and 28 July 1920. It was occupied by one of four batteries of the Carnarvon Royal Garrison Artillery (12th Medium Brigade). It was a small camp of four officers and 125 men.

I think it unlikely he was with them.

There were internment camps on the island in WW1 but they were closed by 1919 so it was unlikely he was posted on any kind of guard duty in 1920. The guards were mainly made of men from the National Reserve, although 100 men from the KOSB did arrive for guard duty in 1916.

All very interesting but probably no help to you whatsoever!

My wife has family on the IOM, if you want I can make some enquiries and see if we can locate his grave.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek

A record shows him interred at Douglas Borough Cemetery on 5th Sept with his age given as 34.
I suspect you will find a link to aliens camps or medical facilities in the Douglas area. TB? Sanatorium?

If the DC shows he was still serving at his death I would be interested in the details
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming this is the record kinnethmont is referring to:

http://www.lawsons.ca/burials/k_01.html

I will try and get someone to go have a look for a grave.
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telephone number for Douglas Borough Cemetery is 01624 696329

Address is Glencrutchery Road Douglas IM2 6DB.

It might be worth contacting them for a grave reference. You never know, they might be able to get you a photo. If they can't let me know and I'll make some enquiries.
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:

I suspect you will find a link to aliens camps or medical facilities in the Douglas area. TB? Sanatorium?


The aliens and POW camps were all closed down by 1919.
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My cheque is in the post for a death certificate and hopefully a grave location.
Thanks for the continuing help on this boy.
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His death extract has arrived and shows that he died of:
a) Perinephritic Abscess
b) Pyaemia.

Neither could be attributed to war service IMHO.

It does beg the question why his family had him commemorated on 2 different war memorials though. A question that never will be answered.
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spoons



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

found on the web.................. perinephritic abcess

" It can also be a result of local injury. It can happen as a result of fall, blows, contusions, muscle strain, etc."

Isn't it possible that he got the injury whilst serving and then died from the abcess as a result?

\Paul
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