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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: John Harress, R.A.F., presumed killed? |
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I don't seem to be able to find out anything about this man.
The information I've got is from a gravestone in Falkirk (Camelon) Cemetery, Stirlingshire and it states that John, Flt./Sgt., R.A.F., was presumed killed on 19th February 1944 aged 23. I can't find anything on SNWM or CWGC. He was the son of Lleo Harress and Abbey Hives. I've tried umpteen spelling variations for his surname 'just in case' but not a sausage. He's not on any other local War or Church Memorials either.
As some of you may know, there's a new Camelon War Memorial proposed in the near future and this is my last ditch attempt to tie up loose ends but this man is proving to be elusive.
I've asked over on the GWF also so 'nae doot' I'm in for a wee lecture about posting WW2 stuff!!
Any suggestions?
Anne |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Anne
There are some things about this chap's details which are awfully similar to your man.
Both John, both Sergeants, both RAF, both died on 19/2/44, both aged 23.
Mother's name Abigail / Abbey, father's name Cornelius / Leo
Bathgate isn't that far from Camelon either.
I may be making 5 from 2 + 2 but I think it might pay to have a closer look at Sgt Richardson RAFVR
RICHARDSON, JOHN
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 172 Sqdn.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 19/02/1944
Service No: 1566574
Additional information: Son of Cornelius and Abigail Richardson, of Bathgate, West Lothian.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 237.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Regards
Adam |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I know about this man Adam, he also has a family memorial in Camelon, a couple of Sections away - another coincidence!!!
I checked with the Cemetery Records Office to see if they could shed some light on 'my' man but all they could do was affirm the details already inscribed on the stone. John obviously isn't buried there.
John Richardson's father Cornelius, died 7th July 1960 aged 67 (no mother on the stone)
John Haress's father Lleo, died 20th March 1969 aged 73, mother Abbey died 8th July 1959 aged 62.
I'm wondering if the names on Runnymede Memorial are on-line anywhere - that's one thing I never thought to try and check. Do you happen to know?
Anne |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ignore what I said about Runnymede!
Obviously if he was on that, he'd be listed on CWGC . . . (or would he be one of the ones missed?)
Can you tell - I'm going round in circles here!
Anne |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I had a thought that maybe he was on bombers, shot down, posted as missing and turned up later as a POW (after the gravestone was carved). A long shot I know and it didn't pan out, there was a FSgt J Harrison shot down and became a POW on 19th Feb 1944 but I have no evidence that it was the same man.
Only things I can suggest are looking for evidence that he survived - service record etc, subsequent entry for his death.
\Paul |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts Paul.
I've tried all the obvious things - other local war memorials & church memorials. I've even spent some of my precious credits on Scotland's People to see if he died in Scotland up to 1956 - nothing. I also searched for a marriage for his parents but again, nothing.
I've never actually heard of the surname Harress or Hives (his mother's maiden name) so the family could have originated from anywhere. I wouldn't say either name was typically Scottish anyway.
I haven't got a clue how to look for service records maybe you could advise me on that one.
Anne |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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apanderson wrote: | I've never actually heard of the surname Harress or Hives (his mother's maiden name) so the family could have originated from anywhere. I wouldn't say either name was typically Scottish anyway.
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Lleo seems to be Spanish, Harress is perhaps German? That's why I thought Richardson might have been a possibility if the family changed their names during the war.
This is a tough one!
Adam |
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dhubthaigh Our first ever 1000-poster
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 5071 Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Anne,
This has really intrigued me. Could you post a photo of the grave please.
Mark |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I was intrigued too Mark - now it's driving me bonkers!
Last edited by apanderson on Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dhubthaigh Our first ever 1000-poster
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 5071 Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting to see Warner Harress listed. I found this earlier today whilst 'googling';
http://www.uk-keyloggers.com/finder.htm
As you will see Warner Harress (deceased) is at the foot of the class list.
Also there is a Warner Harress Carpets Shop in Dunfermline;
Warner Harress (Carpets)
51 Carnetie Drive
Dunfermline
Fife
KY12 7BB
Tel: 01383-723358
Anne, these could unlock the door if you want it enough. I exhausted all avenues for the War Memorial in Blairgowrie & Rattray. I'd say - why not, I was never disappointed.
rgds.,
Mark |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Fantastic Mark or should I say Sherlock!!
You can rest assured that I'll be on the phone tomorrow morning to the carpet shop!!
I'll keep you posted if, no when, I find something!
Anne |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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No reply to the number for Warner Harress Carpets - I've been trying all day! Typical - probably shut down or something! I'll keep trying though.
Anne |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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apanderson wrote: |
I haven't got a clue how to look for service records maybe you could advise me on that one.
Anne |
I have never got records for RAF personnel myself but..............
RAF records for WW2 period are held at RAF Innsworth and I think there is a £30 charge, and even then I believe you need to prove a relationship between you and the person whose records you want, so I think you will need to find a relative first.
From the web "The Family Records Centre has indexes to RAF deaths 1939-1948, these indexes are also at the National Archives" but these are both in London - perhaps the indexes are in Edinburgh as well?
Are you sure his name was John Harress? It looks to me from the stone as if it could have been John Hives.
Another thought, have you tried the local papers to see if there are obituaries for any of those named?
\Paul |
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dhubthaigh Our first ever 1000-poster
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 5071 Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Anne,
What about contacting the e-mail address on the school reunion site? No stone......
Mark |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts Paul.
Women are nearly always referred to by their maiden names on gravestones so Im pretty sure her married name would be Harress.
I would imagine you're right about records being in Edinburgh - I've never had any reason to look for them before.
I did look on Scotland's people to see if I could find births or marriages for any of the surnames but I couldn't find any at all and all the deaths (except John's) are outwith the online available records. Of course any of these events could have happened outwith Scotland anyway.
I think I'll have to give the Obtituaries in the local papers a go.
As I said (above), I tried the number posted by Mark but it's just ringing out. I double checked it just in case and it is the correct number.
The link Mark posted is someone's page from a local primary school and it lists the grandson Warner Harress as deceased - this would tie up the Warner on the stone with the one on the web-site. I tried e-mailing the address given on the site, but my message bounced back.
These Harresses certainly don't seem to want to be found!
Anne |
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