The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

GRAVE CONCERN · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow

can anyone tell me if anyone is happy with glasgow cemeteries

we are a small company cleaning and looking after graves (please have a look at the web site
www.graveconcernscotland.com

we have been complaining to glasgow city council about the state of all the cemeteries in glasgow
Please lets us know if you have any concerns also get in touch

Be proud of Glasgow

Adam Brown · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject:

Moving to Queries and requests.

Adam
Forum Admin

David McNay · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:36 am Post subject:

The fundamental issue is that the council are not responsible for the maintenance of graves - they are owned by the lair owner and as such are their responsibility. This is when it becomes tricky as the original purchaser of the lair may be long dead. However, the council still have a responsibility to try and contact the owner, whoever that may be. That can take time.

Their is also oanother issue - would you want your council tax to be spent on maintaining a grave that isn't yours?

This is a complex argument and I don't think it's quite such a black and white issue of lobbying the council until they sort it.

GRAVE CONCERN · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow

The fundamental issue is the Council ARE responsible for the maintenance of the land as the lair holder has only purchased the right to burial in that pacific lair

As far as council; tax being squandered in cemeteries rather than providing services for the people of the city I totally agree with you on this

I have done various financial models and they all workout the the bereavement department has potential of making profit so why should they use Council Tax

spoons · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:

I don't know much about this but I would like a more precise understanding and this seems the thread to do it. I understand that the maintenance of CWGC stones is a CWGC responsibility, maintenance of private stones is the responsibility of whoever purchased them and maintainance of the remainder of the cemetery (paths, grass between graves or lairs etc) is the responsibility of whoever is responsible for the cemetery or churchyard, usually the local council or church depending on the nature of the burial ground. Is that about right?

Local councils also have a responsibility under health and safety for the safety of the gravestones which is why they employ people to push over any stones that appear to be unsafe (as they have done in large numbers in Edinburgh to a lot of people's disgust). It would then be up to whoever purchased the stones (e.g. the family) to re-erect them in a secure way if they wish. Can anyone confirm if this is a correct understanding?

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Paul
That is my understanding also, responsibility for a private headstone rests entirely with the lair holder. It is the fact they are not known which generally creates the situations where stones are laid flat. As to whether they are all a safety risk is another matter.
I think a council's Health and Safety obligations will only apply to those cemeteries within their ownership or control.

CWGC are responsible for some, but not all, war graves.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

GRAVE CONCERN · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow

Spoons You are correct in your statements

GRAVE CONCERN · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow

hi can any one tell me how i can load a photo to the site
thanks

DerekR · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject:

See this thread:

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=470
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

Tonym · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 224 Location: East Sussex

It would appear to me that there is a sad lack of activity or indeed interest in Glasgow cemeteries generally. I am having a problem in obtaining details regarding the burial of a lady who died in 1965 and the erection of the family headstone in Sandymount Cemetery.

15th September. A letter to the Cemetery Manager to an address published in “Living in Glasgow” website. Letter subsequently returned “Address Unknown”.

30 September. Letter to The General Manager, Cemeteries & Crematoria Registrar, 20 Trongate, Glasgow.

15th November. Email to Cem. & Crem. Registrar requesting if my letter of 30th had been received.

1st December. Letter to the Chief Executive, Glasgow City Council, asking if, in view of my original letter having been returned “Unknown”, if 20 Trongate was still an active address.

3rd December. Response from the Chief Executive advising that my letter had been passed to the Executive Director, Land and Environmental Services.

29th December. Not a word! Am I being unreasonable?

Tony
_________________
Pte. W. BROWN, Middlesex Regiment, K.I.A Battle of The Somme.
Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy.

GRAVE CONCERN · Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow

Can you please give me details of what you have and what you are looking for and we will try to get it for you

Grave Concern Scotland

Adam Brown · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject:

Tony

Glasgow and Edinburgh Councils both seem to care little about the cemeteries in their care.

I know money is tight in all councils but some local authorities seem to have a better attitude / sense of responsibility than others.

I'm guessing here, but I suppose it depends which part of a council organisation the cemeteries come under how well they are maintained.

It looks like Glasgow City Council doesn't even know who looks after their own cemeteries!

I don't want to get political because that is off-topic on this forum but the fact is money is going to be very tight for all local authorities in Scotland over the next couple of years because of the freezing of Council Tax and the concordats signed between the Executive / Government and COSLA. There will be a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul in council budgets and I suspect ground maintenance of cemeteries and answering of queries will suffer, as will war memorial maintenance...

I know some Edinburgh cemeteries were taken under council ownership when the private owners could not manage them but now they are little better in Council 'care'. But private ownership can work. Look at the Dean Cemetery in Edinburgh, it is well maintained - how do they do it so well when others can't?

Regards

Adam

[**Way off-topic warning** - By the way I don't know where this use of 'concordat' came from. I'd only seen it used for the negotiations between the Vatican and Italian and German governments in the 1930's and looking up Chambers online dictionary gives:
concordat noun an agreement between church and state, especially the Roman Catholic church and a secular government.
ETYMOLOGY: 17c: French, from Latin concordare to agree]

Jim · Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 195

Tonym · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 224 Location: East Sussex

GRAVE CONCERN SCOTLAND

Email with details on the way, thanks for your offer

ADAM

I did offer to pay them for their service. I will bet that they still charge a fair wack for a funeral or just scaterring ashes.

Tony
_________________
Pte. W. BROWN, Middlesex Regiment, K.I.A Battle of The Somme.
Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy.

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:

I've taken the liberty of tidying up this thread a little by editing my own post and deleting a few others that related to my original comment.

This forum is not about politics and should not veer into political discussions. Occaisionally a point needs to be made which involves local or national government but that is not an excuse for getting on a soap box.

Regards

Adam