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GRAVE CONCERN
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Glasgow Cemeteries |
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can anyone tell me if anyone is happy with glasgow cemeteries
we are a small company cleaning and looking after graves (please have a look at the web site
www.graveconcernscotland.com
we have been complaining to glasgow city council about the state of all the cemeteries in glasgow
Please lets us know if you have any concerns also get in touch
Be proud of Glasgow |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Moving to Queries and requests.
Adam
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David McNay Administrator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 11425 Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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The fundamental issue is that the council are not responsible for the maintenance of graves - they are owned by the lair owner and as such are their responsibility. This is when it becomes tricky as the original purchaser of the lair may be long dead. However, the council still have a responsibility to try and contact the owner, whoever that may be. That can take time.
Their is also oanother issue - would you want your council tax to be spent on maintaining a grave that isn't yours?
This is a complex argument and I don't think it's quite such a black and white issue of lobbying the council until they sort it. |
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GRAVE CONCERN
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Glasgow Cemeteries |
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The fundamental issue is the Council ARE responsible for the maintenance of the land as the lair holder has only purchased the right to burial in that pacific lair
As far as council; tax being squandered in cemeteries rather than providing services for the people of the city I totally agree with you on this
I have done various financial models and they all workout the the bereavement department has potential of making profit so why should they use Council Tax |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know much about this but I would like a more precise understanding and this seems the thread to do it. I understand that the maintenance of CWGC stones is a CWGC responsibility, maintenance of private stones is the responsibility of whoever purchased them and maintainance of the remainder of the cemetery (paths, grass between graves or lairs etc) is the responsibility of whoever is responsible for the cemetery or churchyard, usually the local council or church depending on the nature of the burial ground. Is that about right?
Local councils also have a responsibility under health and safety for the safety of the gravestones which is why they employ people to push over any stones that appear to be unsafe (as they have done in large numbers in Edinburgh to a lot of people's disgust). It would then be up to whoever purchased the stones (e.g. the family) to re-erect them in a secure way if they wish. Can anyone confirm if this is a correct understanding?
\Paul |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Paul
That is my understanding also, responsibility for a private headstone rests entirely with the lair holder. It is the fact they are not known which generally creates the situations where stones are laid flat. As to whether they are all a safety risk is another matter.
I think a council's Health and Safety obligations will only apply to those cemeteries within their ownership or control.
CWGC are responsible for some, but not all, war graves. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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GRAVE CONCERN
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Spoons You are correct in your statements |
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GRAVE CONCERN
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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hi can any one tell me how i can load a photo to the site
thanks |
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DerekR Moderator
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland
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Tonym
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 224 Location: East Sussex
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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It would appear to me that there is a sad lack of activity or indeed interest in Glasgow cemeteries generally. I am having a problem in obtaining details regarding the burial of a lady who died in 1965 and the erection of the family headstone in Sandymount Cemetery.
15th September. A letter to the Cemetery Manager to an address published in “Living in Glasgow” website. Letter subsequently returned “Address Unknown”.
30 September. Letter to The General Manager, Cemeteries & Crematoria Registrar, 20 Trongate, Glasgow.
15th November. Email to Cem. & Crem. Registrar requesting if my letter of 30th had been received.
1st December. Letter to the Chief Executive, Glasgow City Council, asking if, in view of my original letter having been returned “Unknown”, if 20 Trongate was still an active address.
3rd December. Response from the Chief Executive advising that my letter had been passed to the Executive Director, Land and Environmental Services.
29th December. Not a word! Am I being unreasonable?
Tony _________________ Pte. W. BROWN, Middlesex Regiment, K.I.A Battle of The Somme.
Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy. |
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GRAVE CONCERN
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 6 Location: glasgow
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: tonym |
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Can you please give me details of what you have and what you are looking for and we will try to get it for you
Grave Concern Scotland |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Tony
Glasgow and Edinburgh Councils both seem to care little about the cemeteries in their care.
I know money is tight in all councils but some local authorities seem to have a better attitude / sense of responsibility than others.
I'm guessing here, but I suppose it depends which part of a council organisation the cemeteries come under how well they are maintained.
It looks like Glasgow City Council doesn't even know who looks after their own cemeteries!
I don't want to get political because that is off-topic on this forum but the fact is money is going to be very tight for all local authorities in Scotland over the next couple of years because of the freezing of Council Tax and the concordats signed between the Executive / Government and COSLA. There will be a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul in council budgets and I suspect ground maintenance of cemeteries and answering of queries will suffer, as will war memorial maintenance...
I know some Edinburgh cemeteries were taken under council ownership when the private owners could not manage them but now they are little better in Council 'care'. But private ownership can work. Look at the Dean Cemetery in Edinburgh, it is well maintained - how do they do it so well when others can't?
Regards
Adam
[**Way off-topic warning** - By the way I don't know where this use of 'concordat' came from. I'd only seen it used for the negotiations between the Vatican and Italian and German governments in the 1930's and looking up Chambers online dictionary gives:
concordat noun an agreement between church and state, especially the Roman Catholic church and a secular government.
ETYMOLOGY: 17c: French, from Latin concordare to agree]
Last edited by Adam Brown on Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim
Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 195
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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David McNay wrote: | The fundamental issue is that the council are not responsible for the maintenance of graves - they are owned by the lair owner and as such are their responsibility. This is when it becomes tricky as the original purchaser of the lair may be long dead. However, the council still have a responsibility to try and contact the owner, whoever that may be. That can take time.
Their is also oanother issue - would you want your council tax to be spent on maintaining a grave that isn't yours?
This is a complex argument and I don't think it's quite such a black and white issue of lobbying the council until they sort it. |
On this matter. I own a lair in a Glasgow cemetery. I have the title deeds and original invoices etc. Some years ago I contacted the undertaker who had arranged the original purchase (in 1948?) to see if there was a system whereby I could give the lair back to the cemetery owners so that it might be available for those who, even now, prefer interment to cremation.
I was advised not to put my head above the parapet since it was possible the owners might seek many years maintenance charges for the general upkeep of the cemetery, as opposed to just my little bit which they'd probably ignored.
I have no idea if this is correct advice but it was sufficient to convince me to forget the idea. |
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Tonym
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 224 Location: East Sussex
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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GRAVE CONCERN SCOTLAND
Email with details on the way, thanks for your offer
ADAM
I did offer to pay them for their service. I will bet that they still charge a fair wack for a funeral or just scaterring ashes.
Tony _________________ Pte. W. BROWN, Middlesex Regiment, K.I.A Battle of The Somme.
Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy. |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've taken the liberty of tidying up this thread a little by editing my own post and deleting a few others that related to my original comment.
This forum is not about politics and should not veer into political discussions. Occaisionally a point needs to be made which involves local or national government but that is not an excuse for getting on a soap box.
Regards
Adam |
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