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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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Not listed on UKNIWM
Location inside Buittle church OS Map Ref: NX 808 598
Not listed on Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour
Desmond Maxwell
Royal Navy
born Oct 16th 1886 died Apr 28th 1977
Last edited by spoons on Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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Quote: | Not listed on UKNIWM |
I am not sure that UKNIWM would want to record this, it is not a war memorial or memorial to a casualty. Should he be listed here ? He might not have served in war time at all?
This man is aged 91. I expect he is commemorated there because his brothers are.
I can appreciate the other Maxwells at Buittle being recorded here and by UKNIWM.
Quote: | Not listed on Armed Forces Roll of Honour |
If this is a reference to a local Roll that would tend to confirm he did not serve during war time. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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Anne
I think that unlikely as it is for those men and women of the United Kingdom Armed Forces (Regular and Reserve) killed on duty or as a result of terrorist action since 1st January 1948. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Och well - that's the only Armed Forces Memorial I know of.
Anne |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Re: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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kinnethmont wrote: | Quote: | Not listed on UKNIWM |
I am not sure that UKNIWM would want to record this, it is not a war memorial or memorial to a casualty. ? |
I agree not one for UKNIWM
Quote: | Should he be listed here ? He might not have served in war time at all? |
Given his age he may well have served in the Great War. He would have been 28 in 1914.
These types of church memorials which commemorate former servicemen are a bit of a grey area here. Sometimes they are on the SWGP, sometimes they are here. Personally I am happy for them to be here and I don't think we need any hard and fast rules about their inclusion or exclusion.
I'm happy that any plaques in a church are in the public domain because they are often so difficult to get access to.
Regards
Adam |
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Stewartry
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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Adam Brown wrote: | Given his age he may well have served in the Great War. He would have been 28 in 1914. |
He did indeed serve. I don't have my files at hand to give a full reply (my computer is bust) but know that he joined the RN in 1901 and was Lieutenant in 1914, then Lieutenant-Commander from 1916. He was at sea in command of various ships until mid-1918 when he was given a staff posting at Inverness in August 1918.
Stuart _________________ www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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In reply to Jim's original comments. When I post a new memorial, I add the UKNIWM Ref Number if it is listed or state that it is not listed (as this case). I do not imply that it should be listed. The scope of this project is much broader than UKNIWM allowing Covenanter memorials and others to soldiers etc who may well have died of old age. I think this is a great resource for military and family history researchers who, after all, are not always exclusively interested in those who died.
If the memorial is to an individual, I would post the CWGC or Armed Forces Memorial entry if one existed or state that he was not listed on the memorial applicable to his date of death. Again, no inference that he should be listed.
Incidentally, I think that the Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour holds details of all forces personnel who died in service since 1 Jan 1948 regardless of cause of death. There is an indicator to show whether they are also listed on the Armed Forces Memorial.
\Paul
\Paul |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church |
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Paul
Thanks for the explanation. As Adam pointed out, this type memorial is a " grey area " for a War Memorials project, but he is content to record them here.
The information I gave on the Armed Forces Memorial was correct. The criteria is not all deaths in service, regardless of the cause.
They advise:
In what circumstances will someone be included?
The emphasis of the new memorial is to recognise those 'killed on duty' and so it will commemorate those killed in training, on peacekeeping operations and on exercise as well as battle casualties.
Who will be included on the memorial?
In general, members of the UK Armed Forces killed on duty, or as a result of terrorist action since the end of the Second World War will be included. Members of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and the Merchant Navy who died in conflict zones while in direct support of the Armed Forces will also be included.
However, I had initially understood their Roll of Honour repeated the same names, but now appreciate it does list ALL who died in service, regardless of the circumstances of death.
I expect they are indicated as you suggest, to show those on the Armed Forces Memorial _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Jim, we are talking about different things here. You are talking about the Armed Forces Memorial and I am talking about the Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour which lists ALL deaths in service.
Incidentally, Capt Masters RMP is listed on both the Roll of Honour and the Armed Forces Memorial despite the fact that he took his own life by hanging so there must be quite a degree of flexibility in the rules.
\Paul |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Paul
In my last post I explained the confusion and gave details of both the Memorial and Roll.
I am not familier with the details of Capt. Masters. Certainly the Trustees will have discretion in all cases submitted to them. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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